"Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan adati akonza malamulo; ndizabwino. Koma mukukonzekera kuti mupereke kufanana kwathunthu kwa nzika? Ngati inde, nenani zimenezo. Bwanji osanena kuti pazaka 10 padzakhala maphunziro a chinenero cha amayi? Palibe amene akudziwa kuti ndi anthu angati omwe angafune maphunziro a chinenero cha amayi. Koma pakhale kukambirana kwathunthu za izi, "anatero Hugh Pope, mkulu wa polojekiti ya Turkey/Cyprus wa International Crisis Group (ICG)."Kuphatikiza apo, Erdoğan sadzakhala pamalo abwino pazaka ziwiri; zochitika zachigawo sizikuyenda bwino ndi Turkey. Ziwawa za [Kurdistan Workers' Party] PKK zafika poipa kwambiri. Sizingatheke kuti zithe, "ananenanso Papa, akuwonjezera kuti ngakhale kuti PKK yoletsedwa yalimbikitsidwa ndi nkhondo ya ku Syria ndipo yawonjezera zigawenga zake, vuto la Kurdish makamaka limachokera ku Turkey.
ICG idatulutsa lipoti mu Seputembala lotchedwa "Turkey: The PKK and a Kurdish Settlement," ndikulimbikitsa Erdoğan kuti agwiritse ntchito mwayiwu kuti athandizire kusintha kwa demokalase komwe kungakwaniritse zomwe ambiri aku Kurds aku Turkey akufuna ndipo sizingafune kukambirana ndi PKK. omwe amasankhidwa kukhala gulu lachigawenga ndi Turkey, US ndi EU.
Malingaliro akuluakulu a lipotilo ku boma la Turkey ndi oti agwire ntchito yoletsa kumenyana, kulimbikitsa zigawenga kuti asiye kuwukira, kupewa ntchito zazikulu zankhondo, kuphatikiza kuphulitsa kwa ndege komanso kuyimilira kukakamizidwa kuti ayankhe mwamphamvu. Lipotilo likupempha a PKK kuti akhazikitsenso magulu omwe akuukira ndi kulanda anthu wamba, kubzala mabomba ndi zinyalala kapena kutaya ma cocktails a Molotov m'ziwonetsero ndikulonjeza kuti asagwiritse ntchito kuyimitsa moto kuti ayambitsenso, kubwezeretsanso kapena kusamuka.
Turkey wakhala cemented maubwenzi, makamaka kudzera malonda ndi ndalama, ndi utsogoleri Chikudishi Iraq theka-yodzilamulira kumpoto, kumene PKK ali ndi asilikali, koma adakali wosamala kuti chitsanzo cha Kurdish kudzilamulira Iraq ndi chipwirikiti chipwirikiti mu Syria oyandikana akhoza. kukulitsa mikangano yake yaku Kurdish.
Papa amayankha mafunso athu pankhaniyi ndi zina.
Lipoti la ICG linanena kuti pafupifupi anthu 700 anaphedwa m'miyezi 14, chiwerengero chachikulu cha ovulala m'zaka 13.
Nkhani yonseyi sinafotokozedwebe ndi atolankhani akuluakulu ku Turkey. Anthu ambiri sadziwa kuti ndi anthu angati amene akuphedwa. Anthu ambiri amaiwala izi chifukwa panali mtendere pafupifupi zaka zisanu kutsatira kugwidwa kwa [mtsogoleri wa PKK Abdullah] Öcalan. Ndipo panalinso zotsatira za kusintha kwa EU. Kulemeranso kunakula kumwera chakum'mawa, komwe kunali kusintha kwenikweni kuyambira m'ma 1990. Zinkakhala ngati kuti zinthu zikuyenda bwino. Komabe, ngakhale kuchulukirachulukira komwe kulipo, ndikofunikiranso kukumbukira kuti chiwerengero cha anthu omwe amamwalira ndichocheperako kuposa chakumayambiriro kwa zaka za m'ma 1990, mwina pafupifupi kotala la ovulala panthawiyo.
Kodi kwenikweni chawononga pafupi normalization ndondomeko? Malingaliro a anthu a ku Turkey ndi akuti PKK inawononga chifukwa boma linkagwirizana ndi PKK kudzera mu ndondomeko ya Oslo. Mukuganiza bwanji pankhaniyi?
Mbali zonse ziwiri zili ndi udindo. PKK imayambitsa mwachindunji kuwonjezereka kwa chiwawa, ndipo ndikofunikira kusonyeza izi kwa anthu aku Kurdish. Tinachita izi mu lipotilo polemba mndandanda wa mabomba odzipha a PKK, kuukira anthu wamba ndi kupha amayi ndi ana; izi ndi zigawenga. Sitingathe kunamizira ngati ndi china chilichonse. Koma n’chifukwa chiyani ndondomekoyi inasokonekera?
Choyamba, ndi chiyambi cha [Kurdistan Communities Union] KCK inamangidwa mu April 2009. Sindikuganiza kuti [Justice and Development Party] AKP ili ndi udindo kuyambira pachiyambi cha kumangidwa, koma AKP ili ndi udindo wosiya malamulo pamabuku omwe amawalola kupitiriza. Malingaliro a anthu ambiri sanamvetsetse zotsatira za kumangidwa kwa 7,000; ndi tsoka kotheratu. Yaonjezera chiwerengero cha achinyamata amene anadzipereka kukwera m’mapiri. Kenako tinali ndi "kutsegula kwa demokalase" komwe kudayamba, m'malingaliro mwanga, ndi njira ya EU. Zinadziwika bwino mu 2005 ndipo zidapitilira mpaka pano. Kulowererapo kwa nduna yayikulu kunali kofunika; iye anali kusonkhanitsa ojambula achi Kurdish ndi olemba ndikuwonetsa ulemu kwa Chikurdi - theka la vuto ndilofanana ndi ulemu - ndipo nduna yaikulu inachita mbali yaikulu pa izo.
Koma zisankho zitatha mu 2011, mawu a Erdoğan adasintha.
Inde, pambuyo pa zisankho mu 2011, zolankhula zake zidasintha kwambiri ndipo zidakhala zadziko, ndikugogomezera mayankho ankhondo. Sitikudziwa tsatanetsatane wa zokambirana ndi Öcalan ndi PKK, koma zikuwoneka kwa ine kuti mbali zonsezo zinali zowona mtima mu 2009. Anthu omwe anali kukambirana ankakhulupirira kuti apambana. Komabe, zomwe PKK ikuyembekeza kupeza zinali zosiyana kwambiri ndi zomwe Turkey ikanatha kupereka, ndipo mwinamwake Turkey inali kuyembekezera chinachake chimene PKK sichikanatha kupereka.
'Magulu onse aku Kurdish komanso boma silinachite bwino'
Kodi munganene zambiri?
Kunena zomveka, zomwe a PKK ankafuna kwenikweni zinali zinthu zonga kuti asilikali awo azitha kukhala asilikali a m'deralo komanso kuti Öcalan atulutsidwe m'ndende kupita kundende mwamsanga. Iwo anali ndi ziyembekezo zokhutiritsa za zimenezo. Mbali ya Turkey inkaganiza kuti adzatha kubweretsa mamembala a PKK kuchokera kumapiri popanda kuchita zovuta zandale za Kurdish. Panali pang'ono malingaliro okhumba kumbali zonse ziwiri, ndipo zotsutsanazo zinaphulika poyera ku Habur mu 2009. [Kunali chisangalalo m'madera ambiri aku Kurdish mu October 2009 pamene gulu la anthu ogwirizana ndi PKK linadzipereka pachipata cha Habur. monga njira ya boma yotsitsa mamembala a PKK kuchokera kumapiri.]
Palibe mbali iliyonse yomwe inali yokonzekera zomwe zikanati zichitike; iwo anayiwala kuti anthu amenewo anali kukhala ndi nkhondo kwa zaka 30 ndi kukana ndi kuponderezedwa kwa nthawi yaitali kuposa pamenepo. Ndipo kwa nthawi yoyamba, iwo anali kuwona zenizeni, mawonetseredwe akuthupi kuti zonsezi zidzatha - maganizo kwambiri. Gulu la Kurdish mbali imodzi ndi boma mbali inayo; onse anachita zoipa kwambiri. Gulu la Kurdish linapanga chikondwerero cha chipambano ndi mbali ya Turkey, m'malo moziwona ngati kuphulika kwachisangalalo - chifukwa gulu la Kurdish likuwonetseratu kuti ndi chigonjetso - adachiwona ngati chiwopsezo ndipo adachita zinthu zodzitchinjiriza kwambiri, adazitsutsa ndikuzilankhula. kuperekedwa. Ankara amayenera kukhala wachifundo kwambiri ndikumvetsetsa zomwe zingachitike ngati abweza anthu. Koma mwatsoka, anthu ena omwe anali kukonza nkhaniyi adangowona mkati mwa bokosi ndikuyiwala kuti pali anthu masauzande ambiri omwe akukhudzidwa mwachindunji ndi nkhondo. Banja lililonse lakumwera chakum'mawa lili ndi membala kundende kapena kuphedwa kapena kuvulala.
Ofufuza ambiri a chitetezo ku Turkey amakhulupirira kuti ndondomeko ya Oslo inathetsedwa ndi PKK, makamaka chifukwa cha thandizo lomwe PKK layamba kulandira kuchokera ku Syria, Iran ndi boma la Baghdad. Mukuganiza bwanji pa izi?
Ndiko kuika ngolo patsogolo pa kavalo, kapena chizindikiro patsogolo pa choyambitsacho. Chiyambi cha vuto la Kurdish chili ku Turkey. Anthu ali ndi madandaulo ku Turkey, adachitiridwa mopanda chilungamo. Vuto lalikulu ndi vuto la Kurdish ku Turkey, osati kuukira kwa PKK kokha. Kuimba mlandu Syria, Iran ndi Iraq pazomwe zikuchitika ndikolakwika. Komabe, zikuwonekeratu kuti PKK ikulimbikitsidwa kwambiri ndi zomwe zikuchitika ku Syria. Komabe, dera la Kurdish ndi gawo laling'ono komanso laling'ono la Syria, ndipo Turkey sayenera kuchita mantha. Vuto lenileni ndiloti dziko la Turkey linalola asilikali a [Free Syrian Army] kuti azigwira ntchito momasuka kumalire ndi Syria. Kodi Syria siyenera kubwezera mwanjira ina? Tiyeni tikumbukire chifukwa chake Syria idathandizira PKK mu 1984: Chifukwa dziko la Turkey linasankha yokha kudula njira zazikulu zamadzi ku Syria popanda kukambirana ndi Syria. Turkey ili ndi chizolowezi chowonera zochitika ngati chiwembu, chiwembu chotsutsana ndi "Turkey wozunzidwayo," koma nthawi zambiri pamakhala zambiri pankhaniyi. Palinso zokamba za thandizo la America ndi European kwa PKK. Thandizo lanji la PKK? Anthu aku America akupereka mwayi wosayerekezeka, womwe sunachitikepo kuti adziwe zambiri zanzeru ku Gulu Lankhondo la Turkey [TSK]; Azungu akumanga anthu, kuzizira katundu wa PKK ku France, Germany ndi Britain. Ku Europe konse, mayiko ali kumbali ya Turkey bola Turkey ikumenya nkhondo molingana ndi malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi.
'Erdoğan akuyenera kukhala ndi zolinga zokopa maso'
Kodi mukuganiza kuti Öcalan amawonedwabe ndi mamembala a PKK ngati mtsogoleri wawo?
Iye sangakhoze kukakamiza chinachake pa PKK momwe ankachitira kale, koma ngati pali kukhazikika kunja uko, pakufunika kukhala wolumikizana naye yemwe amayenera kukokera pamodzi magulu osiyanasiyana a Chikurdi - PKK m'mapiri, PKK ku diaspora. , PKK m'mizinda, ndi zina zotero - pali anthu onse omwe amafunikira malo. M'lingaliro limeneli, Öcalan atha kukhala munthu yemwe angapereke yankho logwirizana la Chikurdi. Ambiri mwa utsogoleri wa PKK amavomereza kuti Öcalan ayenera kukhala pachibwenzi.
Mu lipotilo mukutsindika za kusowa kwa njira yothetsera mikangano ku Turkey ponena za kuthetsa vuto la Kurdish. Kodi mungafotokoze momveka bwino lingaliro ili, poganiziranso mfundo yakuti kabuku kamene kanafalitsidwa Lamlungu lapitali ku msonkhano wa AK Party kunatchula zosintha zina zokhudzana ndi nkhani ya Kurdish?
Ndingamulimbikitse [Erdoğan] ndi alangizi ake kuti asagwiritse ntchito njira yoperekera pang'ono mokakamizidwa, koma kukhazikitsa zolinga zokopa maso. Prime Minister adati akonza malamulo; ndizabwino. Koma mukukonzekera kuti mupereke kufanana kwathunthu kwa nzika? Ngati inde, nenani zimenezo. Bwanji osanena kuti pazaka 10 padzakhala maphunziro a chinenero cha amayi? Palibe amene akudziwa kuti ndi anthu angati omwe angafune kuti izi zikachitika. Koma pakhale kukambirana kwathunthu za izo. Nawonso nduna yayikulu iyenera kusamala ndi chilankhulo chomwe amalankhula. Mwachitsanzo, iye ananena kuti pali “dera la zigawenga” akamanena za dera limene gulu la PKK limachitirako usilikali. Mawu akuti “chigawenga” akhala akugwiritsidwa ntchito mongofuna; pali anthu ambiri omwe ali m'ndende chifukwa chokhala "zigawenga" popanda kuimbidwa mlandu wachiwawa chilichonse, ndipo mayesero awo sanayambe. Chimodzi mwazinthu zomwe zili munjira yothetsa mikangano ndikusachita zinthu kuti zithandizire pazandale zatsiku ndi tsiku. Erdoğan safuna zimenezo; ali ndi ulamuliro wosagwirizana ndi dziko lino. Inde, akufuna kukhala purezidenti, koma izi zatsala zaka ziwiri. Kuphatikiza apo, Erdoğan sadzakhala pamalo abwino pazaka ziwiri; zochitika zachigawo sizikuyenda bwino ndi Turkey. Ziwawa za PKK zafika poipa kwambiri. Sizokayikitsa kuti idzatha. Gulu lankhondo likuwoneka kuti likuwonetsa vuto ladongosolo. Ngati pali aliyense mu AKP yemwe akuganiza kuti yankho la Sri Lankan ndilotheka, uku ndi misala, makamaka ndi dziko la Middle East kuseri kwa Turkey.
'PKK ilibe ufulu woika maganizo pa ena a Kurds'
Kodi boma liyenera kukambirana ndi PKK atakhala ndi njira?
sindikuganiza choncho. Mwa njira zonse, mutha kulumikizana nawo, fotokozani zomwe mukuchita, koma simuyenera kukambirana za ufulu waku Kurdish ndi PKK. Mukakhazikitsa chikhalidwe chokhulupirirana ndi anthu onse, mutha kukambirana za kuchotsedwa kwa anthu ndikuchotsa zida ndi PKK. Muyenera kukhazikitsa malamulo okhwima kuti mukwaniritse zosintha. Pambuyo pa miyezi ingapo, dziko la Turkey lidzakhala lolimba kwambiri. Ngati a PKK ali oona mtima pokankhira ufulu waku Kurdish, ndiye kuti payenera kukhala dera la PKK lomwe likukambirana za momwe abwerera kwawo.
Ku Turkey, pali anthu omwe amakhulupirira kuti a PKK sakumenyeranso ufulu wa anthu aku Kurdish koma akugwiritsa ntchito mwayi pazochitika ku Syria kuti adziwe gawo la Kurdish.
PKK ili ndi gulu la alongo omwe ali amphamvu kwambiri ku Syria, ndipo nkhani ya Syria sinathe. Koma sizikudziwika zomwe akufuna ndipo angakwaniritse pamenepo. Pakadali pano, aku Kurds ambiri ku Turkey sakufuna dziko losiyana. Ndipo zigawo zambiri ndi pro-AKP. Gulu lachi Kurd limangopeza mavoti mu theka la zigawo makamaka za Kurdish. PKK ilibe ufulu woika maganizo ake pa theka la anthu aku Kurdish ku Turkey.
Kodi mukuganiza kuti a PKK adzipatula pakapita nthawi?
A PKK akuyembekeza kuti padzakhala nthawi yokonza mtendere ndikukonzekera ulendo wobwerera kwawo. Pali anthu ambiri mu PKK omwe akufuna zimenezo. Mu 2009, iwo anakhumudwa kwambiri kuti sanalandire zimenezo. Erdoğan akumva kuti waperekedwa ndi PKK, koma PKK imamvanso kuti yaperekedwa ndi Erdoğan.
Nthawi zina pali malipoti mu nyuzipepala yaku Turkey kuti PKK imagwiritsa ntchito makamaka ana osakwana zaka 18 pankhondo yake. Kodi mwapeza umboni wa zimenezo pamene mukusonkhanitsa zotayika za mbali zonse ziŵiri?
Zambiri za kutayika kwa PKK zimapezeka kwaulere patsamba la PKK; amatchula tsiku lobadwa. Nthawi zambiri amawoneka kuti adabadwa m'ma 80s. Chochititsa chidwi ndi ziwerengerozi ndi kuchuluka kwa nkhani zomwe zatsitsidwa muzofalitsa zaku Turkey. Ndinapeza tsiku lina pamene anthu asanu ndi atatu a PKK anaphedwa ndipo mwa nyuzipepala 11 zomwe ndinagula, asanu ndi mmodzi okha a iwo adalengeza, nthawi zina pamzere umodzi. Pa Sept. 2, pamene asilikali 10 anaphedwa, manyuzipepala atatu akuluakulu ochirikiza boma anali ndi nkhani zazing’ono pamasamba awo. Iyi ndi njira yochepa chabe: nthawi yogula. Anthu amene amawerenga manyuzipepala akupeza maganizo olakwika. Ngati simukunena zamavuto, mungawatsimikizire bwanji anthu kuti dziko la Turkey likufunika njira yothetsera kusamvanaku? Izi zidzangochedwa kuthetsa vutoli. Ndondomeko yamakonoyi siikhazikika. Ndibwino kuti nduna yayikulu idanenanso zosintha zina, koma zikufunika zambiri, ndipo mwina akukonzekera njira imeneyo. Palibe chifukwa chozengereza kapena kudandaula za kutsutsa ndale kuchokera kumadera ambiri ku Turkey. Mukayang'ana kusintha kotere monga TRT-6 [njira ya Chikudishi pa TV ya boma], maphunziro a Chikudishi osankha, bungwe la Kurdish, ndi zina zotero, anthu ochepa kwambiri ku Turkey adatsutsa.
"Turkey sipeza thandizo ngati ikuchita unilaterally ku Syria"
Asitikali aku Turkey awombera ku Syria kwa masiku osachepera anayi motsatana kubwezera zipolopolo zamatope zomwe zidafika kudera la Turkey. Kodi chitukuko ndi chovuta bwanji?
Kuphulika kwa zipolopolo kumalire a Syria ndizodetsa nkhawa kwambiri, koma ndikofunikira kuziwonetsa momwe zilili. Izi zinali zipolopolo zochepa zomwe zidawombera panthawi yankhondo kumbali ya malire a Syria. Turkey adayankha mwamphamvu kwambiri. Syria tsopano yayesera kukonza, ndipo Russia yanenetsa kuti izi zimatenga mozama. Magulu awiriwa anena kuti sakufuna kuti mkanganowu uchuluke. Ankara akuyenera kutsata zomwe zachitikazi ndipo mwina atsimikizire kuti nawonso siziwonjezera moto pamoto womwe ukuwoneka ngati ndewu yayitali komanso yosasangalatsa yapachiweniweni. Koposa zonse, Ankara iyenera kudziwitsa anthu aku Turkey za momwe zinthu ziliri. Phunziro lonse la Syria ndiloti palibe dziko limodzi lomwe lingathe kuchita palokha, palibe njira yothetsera nkhondo pazochitika zomwe zingathe kukhazikitsidwa mopanda malire kuchokera kunja. Zachidziwikire, dziko la Turkey silingapeze thandizo poyesera kuchita palokha, ndipo chilichonse chomwe chimafuna kukhala m'madera akumpoto kwa Syria sichingagwire ntchito ina koma kwakanthawi kochepa.
Kodi ndizotheka kuti dziko la Turkey liyenera kukumana ndi zida za Shiite?
Ndizowona kuti pali ena omwe akuwonetsa dziko la Turkey ngati mphamvu ya "Sunni", m'njira yotsutsana ndi pafupifupi ndondomeko zonse zakunja za Turkey kuyambira kugwa kwa Ufumu wa Ottoman. Chizoloŵezichi chikuwonekera kwambiri muzofalitsa zachiarabu za Sunni kusiyana ndi zofalitsa za ku Turkey, zomwe mwachiwonekere zimayesa kuopseza omwe amadziona ngati Shiite. Turkey iyenera kuwonetsetsa kuti ikuyendetsa bwino malingaliro awa. Ndizowona kuti utsogoleri wa AKP nthawi zina umawoneka ngati ukusiya kuganiza kuti nawonso ali ndi zokonda zamagulu, koma izi sizikugwirizana. Dziko la Turkey likuyenera kubwereranso kumayendedwe abwino osalowerera ndale omwe adawonetsedwa ndi ulendo wa Erdoğan ku Iraq, pomwe adayendera malo opatulika a Shiite ndi atsogoleri.
"Turkey iyenera kukhala yokhazikika ndi Cyprus"
Mwakhala mukugwira ntchito pa mkangano waku Cyprus kwa nthawi yayitali. Tsopano popeza dziko la Turkey lakhumudwitsidwa ndi ulendo wake wa EU, kodi chiyembekezo chikadali chokhazikika?
Turkey yanyalanyaza nkhani yake ya EU chifukwa yakhala ikukanidwa ndi atsogoleri aku Europe - ndizomveka. Yakwana nthawi yoti tiganizirenso. Pali madera atatu ozungulira Turkey: Middle East - ndi tsoka ndipo salinso dziko la mwayi. Malo a ku Russia ali bwino, koma si ochezeka kwenikweni, sichoncho? Pali ubale pakati pa US ndi Turkey, koma si anthu kwa anthu; sichinthu chomwe dziko la Turkey lingalandire. Nanga bwanji EU? Ndi mgwirizano waukulu wa Turkey. Mwachitsanzo, mukamawona kulumikizana kwa ndege pakati pa Turkey ndi Europe, ndi intaneti yotakata, yowundana, yogwiritsidwa ntchito kwambiri. Ankara ikuchita ngati zilibe kanthu. Nkhani yabwino ndiyabwino kwambiri; [EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan] Füle wachita ntchito yabwino kuti lawi likhale lamoyo. Yakwana nthawi yoti dziko la Turkey liganizirenso za mtengo womwe umagwirizana nawo. Kukhazikika kwamtundu wina ndi Republic of Cyprus [boma la Greek Cypriot silikudziwika ndi Turkey] kudzakhala kwabwino ku Turkey ndikuchepetsa mikangano yambiri. Bwanji osayamba kukonzekera malo okhala ku Cyprus? Kuti mukhale ndi ubale wabwino ndi EU, kukhazikika ndi Cyprus kungathandize kwambiri. Turkey iyenera kudzilimbikitsa pankhaniyi.
Hugh Papa
Wochokera ku İstanbul, ndi mkulu wa polojekiti ya Turkey/Cyprus wa International Crisis Group (ICG), akuchita kafukufuku ndi kulemba malipoti okhudzana ndi mfundo za Turkey, dera lapafupi la Turkey ndi zomwe zimachepetsa kapena kuonjezera chiopsezo cha nkhondo. madera ake ukatswiri monga Turkey m'nyumba ndale, zachuma, Chisilamu ku Turkey, mkhalidwe wa Kurds, Turkey umembala kukambirana ndi EU, Turkey ndi Middle East, mkangano Kupro ndi dziko Turkic. Adagwira ntchito ku The Wall Street Journal (1997-2005) ngati mtolankhani waku Turkey ndi Middle East. M'mbuyomu, adagwirapo ntchito ku The Independent (1990-1997) ngati mtolankhani waku Turkey ndi Central Asia, ku Reuters (1984-1989) ngati mtolankhani waku Iran ndi Middle East komanso ku United Press International (1982-1984) ngati mtolankhani waku Syria ndi Lebanon. . Ali ndi BA in Oriental studies (Persian with Arabic) kuchokera ku Oxford University (1982). Mabuku ake akuphatikizapo "Kudya ndi al-Qaeda: Zaka Makumi Atatu Kufufuza Mayiko Ambiri a ku Middle East" (Thomas Dunne / St Martins Press, March 2010), "Sons of the Conquerors: Rise of the Turkic World" (katswiri wa zachuma " Buku la Chaka" mu 2005), ndi "Turkey Yovumbulutsidwa: Mbiri Yamakono a Turkey" (New York Times "buku lodziwika bwino" mu 1999).
(Zaman lero)
